tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post4419918399780588128..comments2023-11-03T06:35:48.003-05:00Comments on Shark and Shepherd: Shark in the CitiesRick Esenberghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07280070509167910367noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-73905715332750090142009-11-28T11:37:03.425-06:002009-11-28T11:37:03.425-06:00UST isn't just "bottom half" -- it&#...UST isn't just "bottom half" -- it's "bottom quarter" at best. Again, when the market for newly-minted law schools has gone to pot (and when recent graduates from real law schools are still looking for jobs), what service does this diploma mill provide to the suckers who enroll there?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-87084132247679607442009-11-27T23:33:39.367-06:002009-11-27T23:33:39.367-06:00Wow, I post on a paper that I presented and I get ...Wow, I post on a paper that I presented and I get a lot of grief directed at the host school. One of the reasons that I like UST is that it is not just another law school, but has a distinctive mission and a faculty doing interesting stuff - or at least stuff that is interesting to me. There are a handful of "bottom half" schools that have an energy and a model that separates them from the pack and suggests that they may fill a niche. I think UST is one of them. It is trying to form lawyers in a different way. This is not to suggest that schools like Marquette do not seek to provide education in accordance with their Catholic identity (they - or at least we - do), but I think UST goes at in a way that is just a bit different. I don't know that I like it better than what we do, but I think it is worth someone trying to do.<br /><br />If you want a comparable example of a "non-presigious" school associated with more "liberal" causes (and I would call UST rigorously Catholic rather than conservative), I'd offer Vermont Law School as a center for environmental law.<br /><br /><br />And, Foust, campaign issues aside, he actually has done fine.Rick Esenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07280070509167910367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-77245465564440505392009-11-25T08:48:55.291-06:002009-11-25T08:48:55.291-06:00From the University of St. Thomas Law School web s...From the University of St. Thomas Law School web site:<br /><br />"Direct Costs: Actual tuition for first year law students for the 2009-2010 academic year at the University of St. Thomas School of Law is $34,472. Tuition is based on enrollment of 31 credit hours at a tuition rate of $1,112 per credit. Required fees for 2009-2010 total $284. This includes a Technology Fee of $159 and a Student Activity Fee of $125."<br /><br />Let me get this straight... You spend over $100K on tuition and fees alone (not counting living expenses and books) to enter a job market where the number of openings for newly-minted lawyers is virtually non-existent? How you going to pay back that hundred grand, kid?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-35625069201378247102009-11-25T08:25:08.361-06:002009-11-25T08:25:08.361-06:00"Hamline is probably not the worst..."
...<i>"Hamline is probably not the worst..."</i><br /><br />I think last time you followed that with "He'll do just fine."Display Namehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15842340986220388709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-29400441148761754162009-11-25T07:27:37.365-06:002009-11-25T07:27:37.365-06:00"...it's really hard to see why UST saw t..."...it's really hard to see why UST saw the need for a 3rd local law school in a relatively small metropolitan area."<br /><br />Au contraire, it's easy to see why the folks at St. Thomas opened their unnecessary and lower-tier school: they figured it was an easy way to make some $$$ for an otherwise relatively undistinguished academic backwater.<br /><br />What do you need to open a law school? A few blowhards to pontificate in front of a classroom of students who couldn't get into a "real" law school and who are able to pay for the privilege of doing so. You don't need expensive equipment, and you don't even need to hire "real" professors -- you can find local lawyers willing to take a small paycheck for the "honor" of becoming a professor.<br /><br />This model worked when (arguably) we needed more lawyers (and that point is definitely arguable!), but it is a non-starter in today's economy when large law firms are downloading partners (check out the big firms here in Milwaukee in that regard!) and almost no one is hiring. Want proof? Many of the big law firms aren't hiring students for summer work anymore -- they are "mothballing" their summer associate programs. Who needs more lawyers, and what will the poor students at the lower-rung private law schools do to pay back the massive debts they are accumulating?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-79992930634615386342009-11-25T00:07:06.889-06:002009-11-25T00:07:06.889-06:00Incidentally, Hamline is probably not the worst
D...<i>Incidentally, Hamline is probably not the worst</i><br /><br />Damning with faint praise. In any event, it'd be hard to demonstrate. The University of Minnesota is undeniably in a class by itself, but how is it possible to distinguish the remaining three? They have comparable class profiles (LSAT, undergrad GPA), which for that matter aren't all that different from Marquette's. If you value USN rankings, you'd say that Hamline fares worst, because it's in the 4th Tier, while UST and WM are in the 3rd. If you look at the perhaps obscure but nonetheless objective <a href="http://lawlib.wlu.edu/LJ/index.aspx?mainid=156" rel="nofollow">measurement of law review ranking</a>, then Mitchell comes out well ahead of the other two. Of course, there's the payoff window, and Mitchell comes off significantly better than its competitors with respect to <a href="http://www.ilrg.com/rankings/law/median.php/2/desc/MSPrivate" rel="nofollow">median private sector starting salary</a>. No doubt other datapoints result in a different pecking order, the larger point simply being that each of these 3 is basically a local law school.<br /><br />All in all, though, anon 9:27 probably has it right. There's a glut of lawyers, made much worse by the recession, and it's really hard to see why UST saw the need for a 3rd local law school in a relatively small metropolitan area.William Tyrolerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03964907089960326249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-71212784418935286622009-11-24T21:27:45.782-06:002009-11-24T21:27:45.782-06:00Rick -- There are apparently now four law schools...Rick -- There are apparently now four law schools in the Twin Cities -- Minnesota, Billy Mitchell, Hambone, and now St. Thomas. Where are the poor suckers paying the big bucks to study law at St. Thomas going to find jobs when the kids who just graduated from the "real" law school (Minnesota) earlier this year can't find jobs?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-40153412668262818062009-11-23T09:20:45.162-06:002009-11-23T09:20:45.162-06:00Your hyperpole knows no bounds.Your hyperpole knows no bounds.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-28346245208795467582009-11-23T08:41:40.698-06:002009-11-23T08:41:40.698-06:00Anon
St. Thomas is actually a pretty good school ...Anon<br /><br />St. Thomas is actually a pretty good school and has been fully accredited for some time now. It is a new and it has a very strong Catholic mission. It has, because of that mission, attracted a strong faculty and, I think, a very strong student body.<br /><br />Incidentally, Hamline is probably not the worstRick Esenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07280070509167910367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-6916923917166238912009-11-23T06:02:24.078-06:002009-11-23T06:02:24.078-06:00I think you left out that Christians are to first ...I think you left out that Christians are to first follow what scripture teaches and are to do what is right. Since Christians remain silent our problems have grown, terribly.<br /><br />Jesus only provided health care to show people who He is. Our government should not be trying to do the same thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-23807087301966748982009-11-22T22:49:03.540-06:002009-11-22T22:49:03.540-06:00I know, but I can't help but point out the rar...I know, but I can't help but point out the rarest of rare occasions where I know something the Shark doesn't about an author.jvchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06595545071847235650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-82023287157317956462009-11-22T18:17:04.330-06:002009-11-22T18:17:04.330-06:00Regardless of who coined the phrase, it's a ve...Regardless of who coined the phrase, it's a very good description of Progressive policies.Dad29https://www.blogger.com/profile/08554276286736923821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-61833752051603596722009-11-22T17:05:28.401-06:002009-11-22T17:05:28.401-06:00"University of St. Thomas Law School"? ..."University of St. Thomas Law School"? You mean Gableman no longer has the distinction of graduating from the worst law school in Minnesota? Tell me when this shop opened -- is is accredited? How are the poor dopes that marticulate here going to get jobs when recent graduates of real law schools are still hunting?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-21731380949073085082009-11-22T14:55:40.811-06:002009-11-22T14:55:40.811-06:00Eric Voegelin coined the term immanetize the escha...Eric Voegelin coined the term immanetize the eschaton.<br /><br />Just ask Chris Wolfe, he loves the book in which this term appeared.jvchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06595545071847235650noreply@blogger.com