tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post5224236573665035971..comments2023-11-03T06:35:48.003-05:00Comments on Shark and Shepherd: The limits of Constitutional historyRick Esenberghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07280070509167910367noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-89998822709281760362007-09-10T09:57:00.000-05:002007-09-10T09:57:00.000-05:00Jesus - I don't think so but if you know so much a...Jesus - I don't think so but if you know so much answer IT question.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-51590887921231551882007-09-09T23:08:00.000-05:002007-09-09T23:08:00.000-05:00"The generalization was the result of Jesus commen..."The generalization was the result of Jesus comments that led me to believe that he has little to no knowledge of the major religions."<BR/><BR/>I know a lot more than the average Christian or Muslim knows about Christianity or Islam (although not in a rote sense). I just think that the differences you see are minor aspects compared to the big picture. They are both methods of explaining the unexplainable and controlling people. Anything else is just decoration. Or put another way, I'm less concerned about <I>what</I> the religions teach, than I am about <I>why</I> they teach what they do. Both Christianity and Islam base their teachings on hearsay statements about a magical being in the sky. To me, they're not opposites for that reason.JesusIsJustAlrightWithMehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07943373959282558773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-48400512804582876172007-09-09T20:25:00.000-05:002007-09-09T20:25:00.000-05:00they also teach that woman are born with half a br...<I>they also teach that woman are born with half a brain.</I><BR/><BR/>Say what?illusory tenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08524761974822871419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-51023097955882261702007-09-09T19:22:00.000-05:002007-09-09T19:22:00.000-05:00Joe - The generalization was the result of Jesus ...Joe - <BR/> <BR/>The generalization was the result of Jesus comments that led me to believe that he has little to no knowledge of the major religions. Although, I stand by what I said.<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure what Muslim countries you consider moderate or that separate religion from politics. Islam does not see or teach a difference. Moreover, I do not know of a Muslim counrty that doesn't treat non-Muslims as second class citizens. They do not believe in equality and they also teach that woman are born with half a brain. <BR/><BR/>The Islam world is not in an uproar about terrorism. I think partly because of fear but also because they believe that the day is coming when they will destroy all non-Muslims and will rule the world. <BR/><BR/>America was discovered because of Islam that gave Christians distance from the continued attacks from Islam. Even the early 20th century the Turks slaughter millions of Greek Christians. We now live in a different age that makes it possible for them to come here. We need to become more informed to understand our threat. I think our goverment does and is trying to keep it out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-19924053608728259032007-09-09T10:21:00.000-05:002007-09-09T10:21:00.000-05:00Anon,I think your comments on Islam above are over...Anon,<BR/><BR/>I think your comments on Islam above are overgeneralizations and confuse the political systems of particular majority-Muslim countries with the religion itself. <BR/><BR/>Admittedly, many of the governments explicitly hope to eliminate any distinction between the two, but there is a difference for many practicing Muslims.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-20474353205070153042007-09-09T09:42:00.000-05:002007-09-09T09:42:00.000-05:00Jesus - It sounds like you only like people that a...Jesus - <BR/><BR/>It sounds like you only like people that agree with you and that you always think you're right.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-24226629205318992252007-09-08T19:29:00.000-05:002007-09-08T19:29:00.000-05:00I don't hate Christ. I don't even think he's real...I don't hate Christ. I don't even think he's real. I hate the <I>concept</I> of God and Christ and religion. I hate arrogant pricks that pretend they <I>know</I> things that they can't possible know. I hate morons that twist history and definitions, and try to paint others with labels that clearly only apply to themselves. That clear things up for you buddy?JesusIsJustAlrightWithMehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07943373959282558773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-92165566170180842812007-09-08T18:08:00.000-05:002007-09-08T18:08:00.000-05:00Jesus - Look up Humanist Manifesto one and two and...Jesus - <BR/><BR/>Look up Humanist Manifesto one and two and I think you'll find that you are part of a religion, perhaps unwittingly. It's our state religion taught in our state schools that has crept into about everything. <BR/><BR/>Christianity and Islam do not believe in the same God, not even close. There are to many difference to list here so I'll try to make the first premise simple. <BR/><BR/>Christianity is completely voluntary. You decide if you want to believe in Christ and can quit at any time. <BR/><BR/>Islam is completely involuntary. You either believe or become a slave or die. If you try to quit, you die. <BR/><BR/>You have no freedoms in Islam, your entire life is controlled as to what you do everyday. Whereas, you have nearly complete freedom with Christianity to decide what you want to do. <BR/><BR/>The Christian Apostles taught that the only religious aspects are to visit the fatherless and widows. So other than this, I to am opposed to religions as you are and as Jefferson was.<BR/><BR/>Many people hate Christ but don't have a clue why. Apparantly, you don't either.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-79311062203377974692007-09-08T16:22:00.000-05:002007-09-08T16:22:00.000-05:00Just "one profit" different, huh?Which religion is...Just "one profit" different, huh?<BR/><BR/>Which religion is more profitable? In case I want to invest.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-57166969226782101302007-09-08T15:35:00.000-05:002007-09-08T15:35:00.000-05:00Um, like, maybe that's just your opinion man. Tak...Um, like, maybe that's just your opinion man. Take of the blinders. I've explained it over and over again, and you're just not getting it. How is Islam the opposite of Christianity? They believe in the same god. They're, like, just one profit different or something. And I don't have a religion dude. I think all religions are totally gay.JesusIsJustAlrightWithMehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07943373959282558773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-75939862719417901502007-09-08T13:59:00.000-05:002007-09-08T13:59:00.000-05:00Jesus - Adams was dealing with a hostile religion ...Jesus - <BR/><BR/>Adams was dealing with a hostile religion that thought the US had a State Church of Christianity. He made it clear that we did not. They hoped this would stop the aggressive acts of the Muslims towards the US, it did not. That does not mean that we are not a Christian nation or that it pacified the Muslims. <BR/><BR/>Our founders were not completely ignorant of Islam but partialy ignorant thinking that Muslims only wanted to kill Christians. They learned later that they want to kill anyone that isn't Muslim and that they even want to kill some Muslims. Jefferson himself purchased a Qur'an so that he could figure out what the US was dealing with and to get answers to Muslim untypical actions. Sadly, the Quran was used to swear in a Muslim last year in Congress. Jefferson learned much about Islam and wrote that it is completely the opposite of Christianity and that view stayed for many years, perhaps to this day by those who are informed.<BR/><BR/>Jefferson claimed he was Christian and you want to define Christian differantly than he did. He not only claimed it but he lived and promoted the teachings of Christ, even created his own Bible and dedicated his University to Christ. There are many Christians today that don't even know what the teachings of Christ were. I doubt if you do even though you seem so set against them. <BR/><BR/>I know you placed your faith in secular humanism that you are trying to justify. But your religion is falling apart at the seams and its just a matter of time that it will be completely exposed for the falsehood it is. <BR/><BR/>As I said, changing history and omissions has worked for your crowd longer than many thought it would but the gaps are being filled in. Your religion is an empty shell.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-73269429408040568142007-09-08T11:49:00.000-05:002007-09-08T11:49:00.000-05:00Anon,Just so we're straight on things, ain't none ...Anon,<BR/>Just so we're straight on things, ain't none of that shit you just said is supported by the evidence. Hitler's faith is questionable. The evidence we have indicates without any shadow of a doubt that Jefferson did not think Jesus was the son of god. Isn't that a criteria for being a Christian under your definition? You're the one that is ommitting things from the record. Also, not every president has said this is a Christian nation, only the stupid ones. John Adams, for example, signed the Treaty of Tripoli, which said this:<BR/><BR/>"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." <BR/><BR/>This language was read aloud on the senate floor and a copy of the treaty was provided to every senator. They approved it unanimously. Are you just ommitting John Adams in your stupid little statement about our Presidents claiming this is a Christian nation.<BR/><BR/>Look Anon, I realize that you've been totally brainwashed by your cult, but this is the evidence. You have been lied to. Sorry.JesusIsJustAlrightWithMehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07943373959282558773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-13840077769467888152007-09-08T10:41:00.000-05:002007-09-08T10:41:00.000-05:00Jesus - Just so were straight on these things, Hit...Jesus - <BR/><BR/>Just so were straight on these things, Hitler never claimed to be a Christian and his actions showed it, whereas, Jefferson claimed he was a Christian and his actions showed it. <BR/><BR/>Moreover, President after President have claimed that this is a Christian nation while most of the world have seen it that way. <BR/><BR/>Omissions and changing history don't make it non-Christian.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-88003680783395360032007-09-07T17:37:00.000-05:002007-09-07T17:37:00.000-05:00Does "eliminating other Christians" disqualify one...Does "eliminating other Christians" disqualify one from being a Christian? That's a pretty conveniant definition considering how many Christians have killed other Christians (see e.g. Northern Ireland). I admit that Hitler's religious beliefs are somewhat unclear, but he definately had strong ties to the Church. He loved Martin Luther and he was also affiliated with the Catholic Church. He had veto power over Bishops in Germany for Thor's sake.<BR/><BR/>And you obviously didn't read anything I wrote about Jefferson. The quote that that idiot posted that claimed Jefferson said he was a Christian actually included a second half to the sentence in which Jefferson himself explicitly stated that he didn't think Jesus was anything more than a man. He was basically saying that he was a Christian, but he defined "Christian" waaaayyyyyy differently than you do. To him, it pretty much meant that he thought Jesus was a cool dude who made some good points, but he wasn't divine and never claimed to be. This is really simple and well-documented stuff.JesusIsJustAlrightWithMehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07943373959282558773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-38888373178306574112007-09-07T17:24:00.000-05:002007-09-07T17:24:00.000-05:00Jesus, you really are a character.Above you are sa...Jesus, you really are a character.<BR/><BR/>Above you are saying that Hitler was a Christian because he seduced Christians or tried to act like one. You leave out that he eliminated many Christians as he did the Jews. <BR/><BR/>Moreover, in another post you tried to deny that Jefferson was a Christian even when Jefferson himself claimed he was a Christian to his own defense. <BR/><BR/>What will you argue next?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-79327736457279952092007-09-07T15:14:00.000-05:002007-09-07T15:14:00.000-05:00Okay, this is another debate that we don't need to...Okay, this is another debate that we don't need to get into here. But there is certainly evidence on both sides of the debate. Hitler spoke approvingly of Martin Luther many many times. He spoke of his Christian upbringing in Mein Kampf. He certainly implied that in contributed to his antisemitism. Hitler was either a Christian, or was pretending to be a Christian to further his goals. Does it really matter which it was? We are what we pretend to be, no?<BR/><BR/>"People of faith have their monsters to answer for but Hitler, Stalin and Mao belong to someone else."<BR/><BR/>To say that Stalin and Mao were not people of Faith strikes me as crazy. They clearly didn't have faith in any sort of god, but they were still totally dogmatic. They had faith in communism instead of God. Tremendous faith. Neither communism or religion are dangerous in and of themselves. They are only dangerous when people become dogmatic about them.JesusIsJustAlrightWithMehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07943373959282558773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-14241128015014411912007-09-07T14:57:00.000-05:002007-09-07T14:57:00.000-05:00J-Hitler said that you can't be a good German and ...J-<BR/><BR/>Hitler said that you can't be a good German and a good Christian. He was willing to try to use the church to his ends (and too many church people went along with him) but he was not a Chritian and was not trying to save anything like a Christian civilization. People of faith have their monsters to answer for but Hitler, Stalin and Mao belong to someone else.Rick Esenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07280070509167910367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-2226226856050551532007-09-07T09:33:00.000-05:002007-09-07T09:33:00.000-05:00Anon 2:29,"FDR and Churchill both believed the bat...Anon 2:29,<BR/><BR/>"FDR and Churchill both believed the battle against Germany was to save Christian civilization."<BR/><BR/>To a point perhaps. And Hitler believed his battle against the Jews was to save Christian civilization too. To a point at least. It's not exactly news that most people in Europe and America in 1938 were Christian. <BR/><BR/>You should note that it's mostly the pro-Christian government crowd that is attributing fake quotes to our founders. BOCTAOE. Also, it's not like we atheists are claiming that the founders were atheists. We look at the info and come to conclusions. We don't come to conclusions and then twist the information to fit those conclusions. BOCTAOE.<BR/><BR/>Anon 6:45,<BR/><BR/>"There were no other groups that could have influenced the founding of this nation."<BR/><BR/>Except for deists and Unitarians. Look, nobody is saying that Christianity wasn't the dominant religion in America during the founding. It was. But you have to realize that many of our founders (and framers of the Constitution) were really really smart guys. They were far more enlightened then the general population. [Please don't read that as an insult. I’m using the term “enlightened” as in “the age of enlightenment” i.e. they advocated reason as the primary basis for authority, not God or Thor.] They were faced with the task of making a reasonable document acceptable to Christians. But I think they did a pretty good job of it.JesusIsJustAlrightWithMehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07943373959282558773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-51818640038549585472007-09-07T06:45:00.000-05:002007-09-07T06:45:00.000-05:00Our founders were most concerned with not giving p...Our founders were most concerned with not giving power to one Christian denomination over another. They created a goverment that would settle on law and policy that all denominations of the country would agree on. <BR/><BR/>Our founders had no intention of making this an aethiest/secular state as they had no intention of creating a State Church that had power over others. The laws and policies are an agreement of principals of the Christian denominations of the colonies. <BR/><BR/>There were no other groups that could have influenced the founding of this nation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-1844620592969813882007-09-06T23:49:00.000-05:002007-09-06T23:49:00.000-05:00Nazis, eh? I thought D. James Kennedy died today.M...Nazis, eh? I thought D. James Kennedy died today.<BR/><BR/>Maybe he died at 2:30 P.M.illusory tenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08524761974822871419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-16039774465751017702007-09-06T14:29:00.000-05:002007-09-06T14:29:00.000-05:00FDR and Churchill both believed the battle against...FDR and Churchill both believed the battle against Germany was to save Christian civilization. <BR/><BR/>Now we have the same types trying to eliminate it then, trying to elimintate it now. Churchill address the house of Commons on June 18, 1940 "...But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyass of a Dark age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science." <BR/><BR/>Yes it matters that we know who we are and what made us great. The misinformation given by the antichristian crowd is amazing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-18373498038120537402007-09-04T11:29:00.000-05:002007-09-04T11:29:00.000-05:00Writing matters, definitions matter, just as histo...Writing matters, definitions matter, just as history matters.<BR/><BR/>There were agnostics among the Founders, including some who wrote with great awe and fondness of the Great Creator. (I just reread two bios of Jefferson.)<BR/> <BR/>Not that even they always wrote quite what they mean -- plus, much of what they wrote had to get through committee, the bane of concise communication. <BR/><BR/>On that note, I'm glad our host is better -- but it was more than unsettling that he wrote at the start of health problems and then closed by writing that he is "with" a deceased jurist. <BR/><BR/>That made me gulp more morning coffee.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-18314331797674609892007-09-04T10:47:00.000-05:002007-09-04T10:47:00.000-05:00Nothing like religion to stimulate debate.Nothing like religion to stimulate debate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-79663070477385779342007-09-04T08:46:00.000-05:002007-09-04T08:46:00.000-05:00"I think that much of what he does is a corrective..."I think that much of what he does is a corrective to the "Founders as atheists" school..."<BR/><BR/>Are you serious? I'm really into church/state stuff, the Constitution, its history and that sort of thing. I read everything I can about it. I'm also a staunch atheist. And I have never ever ever heard anyone ever suggest that the founders were atheists (accept maybe Thomas Paine). There is no need to respond to the "founders as atheists" school because no such school exists. Your suggestion that such a school needs to be responded to is a straw man. If it does exist, it is a fringe group that most of us pro-SofC&S people do not embrace.JesusIsJustAlrightWithMehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07943373959282558773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-82218414333523198622007-09-04T07:59:00.000-05:002007-09-04T07:59:00.000-05:00JayI can attest that, politically speaking, Mr. Ci...Jay<BR/>I can attest that, politically speaking, Mr. Cisewski is probably more comfortable with your team than mine. He worked for a pol who I might call a moonbat were I the type of guy who did that kind of thing.<BR/><BR/>He did not say that the US was a Christian nation, only that it is hard to base the type of separation that the Supreme Court has sometimes required and that left elites tend to support in the historical record. Whether you think that's important or not is another matter.<BR/><BR/>IT's point is a good one. As for Barton, I have blogged in the past that I did hear him speak once and my elitist Eastern-educated self couldn't get past the fact that the guy was wearing an American flag shirt. I think that much of what he does is a corrective to the "Founders as atheists" school, Some of what I heard was exaggerated and not right. Some was history that you won't hear in some places.Rick Esenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07280070509167910367noreply@blogger.com