tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post8395347744887431535..comments2023-11-03T06:35:48.003-05:00Comments on Shark and Shepherd: Courting political war of Epic proportionsRick Esenberghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07280070509167910367noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-18746293080166211732013-01-31T23:27:51.116-06:002013-01-31T23:27:51.116-06:00The Single Wing offense uѕe the pc 2007 elite edіt...The Single Wing offense uѕe the pc 2007 elite edіtiоn to watсh football <br />game in 1892 bеtween Auburn аnd Tulane were follow uρ <br />ѵictories fοr LSU that's given the team win. Take special care in making use of various strategies. The explanation of the time. 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Thе style imρlemеnted on the move.<br /><i>Here is my web-site</i> - <b><a href="http://www.recycleyourfashions.com" rel="nofollow">St Johns knits</a></b>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-76061051515499142342008-07-12T09:14:00.000-05:002008-07-12T09:14:00.000-05:00Thank you for the correction. I assume you mean t...Thank you for the correction. I assume you mean the former ad, and not the "Loophole Louie" latter ad I mentioned. Time flies, and you mix up the things your kids did.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps WMC can turn its millions to decrying the misleading ads that everyone else did. That would improve the social fabric, no? <BR/><BR/>"Oversimplified"? Is that one of those "terms of art" that us regular folk simplify to other more direct terms? Think they weren't "oversimplifying" on purpose? Think they'll stop "oversimplifying" in the next Supreme race?Display Namehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15842340986220388709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-26189597769069116112008-07-11T22:35:00.000-05:002008-07-11T22:35:00.000-05:00John Foust, accuracy please. The ad that you refer...John Foust, accuracy please. The ad that you refer to was awful but it was not run by WMC. I have made no secret of the fact that ads in judicial campaigns - by both sides - drive me to tears. But, so do the questions asked by people like Ted Kennedy and Herb Kohl at judicial confirmations hearings. Did WMC run ads that I think oversimplified things? It did. Every one did. Although, without going back, I don't think that it ran the worst.Rick Esenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07280070509167910367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-4380934132701530552008-07-11T17:19:00.000-05:002008-07-11T17:19:00.000-05:00Anon: I think the Professor wanted to say that if ...Anon: I think the Professor wanted to say that if Epic was concerned about unethical behavior in the advertisements and manipulations of the Gableman/Butler race <I>in general</I>, then Epic also should be trying not to do business with any companies that might've contributed to those groups of (WEAC/trial lawyers/casinos/unions) who also sponsored misleading advertisements. He thinks it's unfair that Epic singled-out WMC.<BR/><BR/>I think this is as close as he'll come to admitting that WMC spent millions on deeply misleading ads. The flaws in these ads might be obvious to smart folks like you, me and the fencepost, but the logical flaws and lies were not obvious to many people who vote. <BR/><BR/>You see, WMC was just strengthening the social fabric when they told us it was a Supreme Court justice's fault and flaw that in the course of his job as a public defender many years before, a criminal went to jail, served his time, and committed another crime after that. They weren't trying to mislead voters! They were just spending millions on <A HREF="http://www.madison.com/tct/opinion/column/294206" REL="nofollow">"good-natured ribbing."</A>Display Namehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15842340986220388709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-11242378970533470982008-07-11T12:25:00.000-05:002008-07-11T12:25:00.000-05:00Epic was concerned about the ethics of its vendors...Epic was concerned about the ethics of its vendors. Why should it "want to get at" entities it doesn't do business with?Pete Gruetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05572467982814679508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-64621260550057180902008-07-11T12:01:00.000-05:002008-07-11T12:01:00.000-05:00That last post by Rick is unreadable.That last post by Rick is unreadable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-16796414203549423922008-07-11T11:52:00.000-05:002008-07-11T11:52:00.000-05:00Epic made very clear that their action wasn't base...<I>Epic made very clear that their action wasn't based on WMC's politics but its ethics.</I><BR/><BR/>Then it ought to want to get at those who supported the GWC because WEAC and the trial lawyers and the casinos and the public employee unions weren't concerned with Gableman's sentencing practices either and, if WMC's ads grossly distorted the criminal justice system, then so did it's.Rick Esenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07280070509167910367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-85124893719945222992008-07-11T11:17:00.000-05:002008-07-11T11:17:00.000-05:00The more there is on blogs andin traditional media...The more there is on blogs andin traditional media about the WMC, the better the public is informed about what the group is, does, wants and gets.<BR/><BR/>That's a good thing, because individuals will come to understand that what the WMC is, does, wants and gets is grossly-laden with company managers' self-interest.James Rowenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10203270946492159686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-18372200858753036042008-07-11T11:00:00.000-05:002008-07-11T11:00:00.000-05:00The fact remains that what's going on here is an a...<I>The fact remains that what's going on here is an attempt to penalize someone commercially for their politcal position.</I> - WRONG. <BR/><BR/>Epic made very clear that their action wasn't based on WMC's politics but its ethics. WMC now claims it opposed Justice Butler for his record on corporate liability yet their campaign against him focused on gross distortions of the criminal justice system. There was no call for accountability within the ranks of WMC's members so one can assume them to endorse this kind of duplicity. <BR/>Epic has never said anything about anybody's politics or given any indication that they make business decisions based on politics. Dishonest dealing is an entirely different thing.Pete Gruetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05572467982814679508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-52016290084761728202008-07-11T08:23:00.000-05:002008-07-11T08:23:00.000-05:00Looks to me like WMC is owned and operated by the ...Looks to me like WMC is owned and operated by the insurance industry. Why else would it oppose useful health care reform and also sell health care insurance on the side. But the members have as much right to terminate their membership (as I did) as Ms. Faulkner has to support companies with agreeable politics. <BR/><BR/>Or did we give up on "free market" everywhere but health care?Jack Lohmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10214373845549362680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-17134998720227086272008-07-10T23:10:00.000-05:002008-07-10T23:10:00.000-05:00The size of the contribution has no bearing on the...The size of the contribution has no bearing on the situation, but I think that the source of the contribution does have bearing. If you can't see the difference, there is not a whole lot I can do for you.<BR/><BR/>I don't see how anybody can compain about, WMC's behalf about politicizing business. WMC made the conscious decision to enter the political arena.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-91368304305829130472008-07-10T20:47:00.000-05:002008-07-10T20:47:00.000-05:00Your statement that Epic execs should reveal if th...<I>Your statement that Epic execs should reveal if they have donated to groups opposing WMC is irrelevant, for the simple reason that the money would have been given PERSONALLY. This is in sharp contrast to the WMC, which is supported by COMPANIES with COMPANY money (like J.P. Cullen and Q&B).</I><BR/><BR/>Umnnnhhhh...really?<BR/><BR/>Membership in WMC comes at a cost which is nominal--certainly not in the $20K++ range which was reported to be Ms. Faulkner's donation to OWN.<BR/><BR/>Rick's argument is persuasive. If Ms. Faulkner wishes to politicize business, she will have only 'politically correct' suppliers. That comes with more than a little risk.<BR/><BR/>But it's her business. <BR/><BR/>On the other hand, Anony, if that game gets turned around and, as Rick hints, hospitals and clinics decide that Epic's systems are fine, but "politically incorrect," what has Ms. Faulkner gained?Dad29https://www.blogger.com/profile/08554276286736923821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-10758510183626359992008-07-10T19:16:00.000-05:002008-07-10T19:16:00.000-05:00"Formalistic" is not the same as "legalistic." Wha..."Formalistic" is not the same as "legalistic." What Soglin is trying to do is change the description of the dispute so that he can characterize it as primary, rather than secondary. The fact remains that what's going on here is an attempt to penalize someone commercially for their politcal position. While Cullen may still support political postions that Epic does not like (although I don't know this to be true), it apparently does so at Epic's sufferance.<BR/><BR/><I>Your statement that Epic execs should reveal if they have donated to groups opposing WMC is irrelevant, for the simple reason that the money would have been given PERSONALLY. This is in sharp contrast to the WMC, which is supported by COMPANIES with COMPANY money (like J.P. Cullen and Q&B).</I><BR/><BR/>I don't know that this is true and I can't imagine how you could either. But even if that's the case, Epic says that it wants its vendors to cease supporting WMC "with current management." Cullen served on the WMC board as a citizen just as, for example, Dave Cross and Jim Friedman serve (or served) on the boards of GWC and WMC respectively as citizens. <BR/><BR/>Moreover, Epic itself is putting its using its corporate dollars to accomplish its political purpose, although I would be far more impressed if it announced that it wouldn't accept business from companies that support WMC (are, for example, Humana and Gunderson Epic client?). It's one thing to throw your weight around on someone else and quite another to refuse to accept tainted WMC-supporting money.Rick Esenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07280070509167910367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-27445536332129325432008-07-10T18:34:00.000-05:002008-07-10T18:34:00.000-05:00Your statement that Epic execs should reveal if th...Your statement that Epic execs should reveal if they have donated to groups opposing WMC is irrelevant, for the simple reason that the money would have been given PERSONALLY. This is in sharp contrast to the WMC, which is supported by COMPANIES with COMPANY money (like J.P. Cullen and Q&B).<BR/><BR/>All the conservative complaining about the mythical "secondary boycott" sickens me. You can't have it both ways. If a company is a part of a group like WMC, which engages itself in politics, they need to be willing to deal with the backlash.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-85337072714039081712008-07-10T15:05:00.000-05:002008-07-10T15:05:00.000-05:00But to think that solves the problem is formalisti...<I>But to think that solves the problem is formalistic and glosses over what may be problematic about a "secondary boycott" in the sense that I and other Epic critics have used it.</I><BR/><BR/>Schweber started this whole subargument by calling Epic's actions illegal. That's why Soglin's response was legalistic.<BR/><BR/><I>It has a problem with the politics that J.P. Cullen execs support.</I><BR/><BR/>Epic is still doing business with J.P. Cullen, and J.P. Cullen's execs still support politics, policies and politicians that Epic doesn't like.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com