tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post8115400243520496882..comments2023-11-03T06:35:48.003-05:00Comments on Shark and Shepherd: Down with dignity?Rick Esenberghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07280070509167910367noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-53428328288779533972008-05-22T12:09:00.000-05:002008-05-22T12:09:00.000-05:00Leon is a Luddite quote of the day:I have to say t...Leon is a Luddite quote of the day:<BR/><BR/><I>I have to say that I'm pessimistic. I think growing up in the United States in the post-World War II era was as good a time as one could wish for--we got all those things that were in the 1939 World's Fair: washing machines, dishwashers, products to relieve the arduous toil of everyday life. Yet all those things haven't made anybody happier. We're not grateful for those devices. You could not today put on a World's Fair and arouse intense longings for a future we don't know. We simply couldn't do it, because there are no more deep unfulfilled human wishes for which technology of the future is going to provide the answer. Yes, we'd like a cure for cancer, and prevention of Alzheimer's disease. But in terms of how we live, we already have more than what we need to live well.</I> <BR/><BR/>http://www.reason.com/blog/show/114637.html<BR/><BR/>Leon loves frailty and death quote of the day:<BR/><BR/><I>The finitude of human life is a blessing for every individual, whether he knows it or not.</I><BR/><BR/>http://www.reason.com/news/show/34771.html<BR/><BR/>And how about a quote that shows both? The additional commentary comes from Virginia Postrel:<BR/><BR/><I>In his 1985 book, "Toward a More Natural Science," Kass criticizes moderns for not emulating the ancient Greeks: "We, on the other hand, with our dissection of cadavers, organ transplantation, cosmetic surgery, body shops, laboratory fertilization, surrogate wombs, gender-change surgery, 'wanted' children, 'rights over our bodies,' sexual liberation and other practices and beliefs that insist on our independence and autonomy, live more and more wholly for the here and now, subjugating everything we can to the exercise of our wills, with little respect for the nature and meaning of bodily life." <BR/><BR/>Congress is basing legislation on the reasoning of a man who finds the dissection of cadavers morally troubling. This isn't about the 21st century. It's about the 16th.</I>PaulNoonanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01600099270280639424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-90088447861300592542008-05-22T08:27:00.000-05:002008-05-22T08:27:00.000-05:00IT can certainly believe that individual choice is...<I>IT can certainly believe that individual choice is extrinsically valuable, but why? Why should I care about his choice so long as he has no power to threaten mine?</I><BR/><BR/>I believe the simplest answer to this question is that the alternative is slavery.PaulNoonanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01600099270280639424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-79330616720802744632008-05-21T20:34:00.000-05:002008-05-21T20:34:00.000-05:00I have quoted some folks who believe that the Mode...I have quoted some folks who believe that the Modern Project is relativism descending from Nominalism.<BR/><BR/>That is certainly NOT to say that all relativists are immoral. Far from it.<BR/><BR/>However, if relativism is doctrinal, then what is "morality" but the values of X or the values of Y?<BR/><BR/>It either is or ain't murder, even with distinctions as to degree. Can't be not-murder for IT and murder for Rick.<BR/><BR/>Unless we live in Babel.Dad29https://www.blogger.com/profile/08554276286736923821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-86947822613279730002008-05-21T12:24:00.000-05:002008-05-21T12:24:00.000-05:00Sorry, that's what I meant. Why is should your cho...Sorry, that's what I meant. Why is should your choice be intrinsically valuable to me. If your question is about criminal sentencing, I don't think that making moral distinctions is the equivalent of moral relativism.Rick Esenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07280070509167910367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-10732127143691555982008-05-20T23:46:00.000-05:002008-05-20T23:46:00.000-05:00IT can certainly believe that individual choice is...<I>IT can certainly believe that individual choice is extrinsically valuable ...</I><BR/><BR/>Intrinsically. <BR/><BR/>You didn't answer my question, though. Not that you're obligated to, of course, but I thought it was an interesting one.illusory tenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08524761974822871419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-76179407373053985662008-05-20T21:43:00.000-05:002008-05-20T21:43:00.000-05:00I also think that conservatives tend to overstate ...<I>I also think that conservatives tend to overstate the extent to which non-conservatives adhere to relativism.</I><BR/><BR/>I tend to agree which is one reason that I like David Tubbs reference to modern liberalism (and he is using the term in a broader sense than Democrat/Republican) as "morally reticent."<BR/><BR/>But Pinker does reduce bioethics to moral relativism. And its a slippery relativism. IT can certainly believe that individual choice is extrinsically valuable, but why? Why should I care about his choice so long as he has no power to threaten mine? There are answers to that question but they can't consist of a simple resort to choice an an ultimate value.<BR/><BR/>I don't think Kass equates dignity with fraility and it is hardly Luddite to wonder whether a thing that can be done ought to be done.Rick Esenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07280070509167910367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-87713867343278607482008-05-20T16:23:00.000-05:002008-05-20T16:23:00.000-05:00Dad29: I doubt the categorical imperative (the gra...Dad29:<BR/> <BR/>I doubt the categorical imperative (the grand-daddy of absolute morality) was the subject of affirmative defenses. But, I know I don't know the definitive answer to that, so at least I know something.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-34739416842956214792008-05-20T12:27:00.000-05:002008-05-20T12:27:00.000-05:00IT, someone else might suggest that the conviction...IT, someone else might suggest that the <I>conviction</I> is the exercise of absolutism and the sentence-hearing the exercise of mercy.Dad29https://www.blogger.com/profile/08554276286736923821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-22860973045864684962008-05-20T12:25:00.000-05:002008-05-20T12:25:00.000-05:00How am I supposed to resist the temptation to act ...<I>How am I supposed to resist the temptation to act upon my perception that some others do not have the same ability to "suffer, prosper, reason and choose?"</I><BR/><BR/>Picking on the freshman law-school class again?Dad29https://www.blogger.com/profile/08554276286736923821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-50657101550892627292008-05-20T11:05:00.000-05:002008-05-20T11:05:00.000-05:00I also think that conservatives tend to overstate ...<I>I also think that conservatives tend to overstate the extent to which non-conservatives adhere to relativism.</I><BR/><BR/>Not only that, but also that moral relativism is somehow inherently deficient compared to moral absolutism.<BR/><BR/>What is a criminal sentencing hearing, if not an exercise in moral relativism.illusory tenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08524761974822871419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-61079162201319914542008-05-20T10:39:00.000-05:002008-05-20T10:39:00.000-05:00I don't think Pinker or anyone else has a problem ...I don't think Pinker or anyone else has a problem with dignity. I think thye have a problem with equating dignity and human frailty, and using the good name of dignity as an argument to preserve death and suffering, and to purusue the Luddite path at the expense of technological advancement.<BR/><BR/>I also think that conservatives tend to overstate the extent to which non-conservatives adhere to relativism.PaulNoonanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01600099270280639424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20692053.post-79408397505917882582008-05-20T10:12:00.000-05:002008-05-20T10:12:00.000-05:00Leon Kass should be aware that there's more than o...Leon Kass should be aware that there's more than one village atheist, and they know quite a bit about religion.<BR/><BR/>Nice play on "village idiot," however. Doubtless a nod to the Psalmist.<BR/><BR/><I>What exactly gives individual choice its value?</I><BR/><BR/>I should think that individual choice is itself intrinsically valuable. Why does there need to be some external measure of the value of individual choice? It <I>is</I> a value.illusory tenanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08524761974822871419noreply@blogger.com