Monday, November 07, 2011

If you want a permit, take a good class

But I am not in favor of attempts to minimize training requirements for concealed carry permits. Regardless of what the legislature does, I feel comfortable saying this. If you carry without adequate training including hands on with your fire arm, you are an idiot and far more likely to harm yourself than an attacker. My own concern is that the four hour classes are inadequate to the extent that they lack adequate intruction in handling, maintaining and actually firing a gun. Let Dad29 tell me if I'm wrong.


Display Name said...

Then again, Dad29 makes jokes about holding his gun when answering the door when canvassers walk up his sidewalk.

Dad29 said...

The single most important lesson to be learned about CCW is "when to pull and use the gun." For practical purposes, the answer is "damn near NEVER." That lesson, along with the other legalities, should be part of a class.

I rec'd a book entitled "In the Gravest Extreme" (the title tells you the thesis), from Paladin Press.

Now, then.

"Hands-on" and maintenance training SHOULD be obtained from the gun-shop immediately after purchase of the weapon. Yes, one has to pay for it. But since these are weapon-specific bits of knowledge, a 'legalities and go/no-go' class cannot adequately cover the material.

Sum: one should obtain 2 hours' training in 'hands-on' and maintenance at the gun store, and another 2 hours' of theory and practice of CCW.

If one doesn't do that, they are foolish, period.

BTW, I happen to agree that military weapons-training is sufficient for most of these purposes. In the military, you learn, the hard way, that a weapon is always dangerous and often fatal. But--again--gun-specific 'hands-on' and the legalities are not part of military training.

'squatch said...

dad: I don't know whose military you were in but your comment "gun-specific 'hands-on' and the legalities are not part of military training" is that of someone not familiar with military training. We lived with our M16s, later M60s and 1911's. Same today with the modern weapons. Once again you purport to be an expert, but show you true colors (loudmouth) with comments like this.

Rick Esenberg said...

Sure - "This is my rifle. There are many others like it, but this one is mine."

I think what Dad meant is that military training would be unlikely to include "hands on" training with the firearm you happen to buy and carry as a civilian. And it wouldn't touch on the legalities and merits of firearm use as a civilian.

'sqautch said...


Any one can learn in a few minutes where the slide release is, how the safety works, or how to load/unload the weapon. What I meant was folks who feel a need to carry need to know when and how to use the gun, how not to shoot off some important piece of your anatomy,and why they are carrying in the first place. Military training provides much, much more of that than hunter safety classes that don't even mention handguns, or some of the fly-by-nite "classes" now popping up all over the place. Many of the Technical Colleges in WI are offering classes through the police science programs that are an excellent source of thorough training and hands-on shooting. Two hours at a gun store and two hours of un-specified "theory" isn't enough to make me feel safe walking around with folks carrying.

Dad29 said...

'squatch has problems reading for meaning.

Army training is great, if you're going to carry an M-16 (like I did) or an M-14 (the first one we trained on.)

Maybe he has really, really, really long legs or something.

The vast majority of military vets do NOT have 1911 training, and Rick is correct: there was no 'niceties of law' training, either.

The history of CCW is written in 48 other States for sqwitch to read. His concerns are unwarranted.

Display Name said...

There's the reality of when you should use your gun.

Then there's the reality of how folks such as Dad29 love to talk about how often they go to the range, how much ammo they're buying, how many dozen weapons they own, etc.

All that talk is quickly followed by "Red Dawn" fantasies of how these weapons will quickly take out the bad guys when the next 1% tax increase debate at the Town Hall turns into a full-blown civil war / zombie apocalypse.

Or how they'll have their weapon at the ready when a canvasser rings their doorbell.

Or how their response to Obama's last incremental proposal on a jobs bill becomes "BUY MORE AMMO!!!!".

What causes the paranoia to grow?

Dad29 said...

Concerns grow from observing stalkers, John.

Anonymous said...

Military xpert with the M1911 as well as M-16. No other handgun I have fired has been functionally different or required anything but cursory examination of its different features

I will take the training to ensure I understand the legalities as Dad29 says.

Anonymous said...

-----All that talk is quickly followed by "Red Dawn" fantasies of how these weapons will.....turns into a full-blown civil war / zombie apocalypse.

Kind of like those OWS losers have Les Miserable and Kent State fantasies.