Thursday, August 10, 2006

The Brave New World sort of sucks

Two things strike me about the (hopefully) foiled London terrorist plot - and not for the first time. First, technology has enabled small groups of people to be enormously destructive. Second, our traditional notions regarding the balance of civil liberties and protection of the public don't take that into account. We have generally thought that the government may not invade a person's "privacy" (however that may be defined) until it has a justification rooted in a particularized suspicion about that particular person. Once that justification is established, however, substantial encroachments on his or her privacy are permitted. Although the law does recognize lesser invasions for lesser reasons, our rules focus on individualized suspicion and have an "all or nothing" character about them.

The new world may require rethinking this. It may be that lesser invasions of persons' privacy (say computer - as opposed to human - monitoring of cell phone calls) are, under certain circumstances, going to have to be based upon reasonable probability as opposed to individualized probable cause. Civil libertarians are right to suggest that this creates real risk of abuse, but the debate may have to be about how to protect against those abuses, rather than to insist upon 20th century notions of what and when the government can search in a 21st century world.

31 comments:

Seth Zlotocha said...

I agree, Rick, these changes to how we view civil liberties may need to happen. But what can't change is how we go about making those decisions. They still need to be made in an open, democratic fashion, not behind the closed doors of the Oval Office (or, more accurately, whereever it is Dick Cheney lurks in or below the White House).

Anonymous said...

Britain apparently thwarted the plot through use of normal police and intelligence methods. Why should civil liberties have to change? To paraphrase Mr. Franklin: Those who would give up liberty for security deserve neither.

Mixter

Anonymous said...

Terrorist and intelligence methods are by their nature not apparent.

Rick Esenberg said...

Mix

The point is not whether to have civil liberties, but how they are to be defined and protected. You should not assume that the law in the UK is the same at is here.

I kind of agree with Seth, although the Patriot Act was an attempt to that - as would be litigation over the scope of the President's national security powers and the briefing of congressional oversight committees.

My point is that an adamant commitment to the categories of the past (of which I am also fond; having been trained in them) may not be wise.

Anonymous said...

When lawyers agree that it's time to let go of civil liberties, the terrorists are on their way to winning.

Dad29 said...

Uhnnnh, Mix--it was NOT just a James Bond MI5 agent. There were wire-transfer intercepts and some telephone stuff..

You know, what the NYSlimes writes about...

Anonymous said...

dad29, that sounds like normal intelligence methods to me. You have some "in" where you know that Britain did these things illegally?

Rick, I understand where you're coming from. And, most of us would have nothing to fear from a lightening up of surveillance methods, etc. However, the potential of the abuse of power is a very real and frightening thing. I have to agree with anonymous: To lose freedom does mean in some degree that the terrorists have gotten their way. President Bush himself has said on many occasions that the terrorists can't stand freedom. So why fight them by taking it away, even a little, from Americans? It seems to defeat the purpose.

Mixter

Rogersykap said...

Uhnnnh, Mix--it was NOT just a James Bond MI5 agent. There were wire-transfer intercepts and some telephone stuff.. You know, what the NYSlimes writes about...

Tonya Craig said...

Terrorist and intelligence methods are by their nature not apparent.

Anonymous said...

Wow that was unusual. I just wrote an incredibly long comment but after I
clicked submit my comment didn't appear. Grrrr... well I'm not writing all that over
again. Anyways, just wanted to say excellent blog!


My web page Read More At this website

Anonymous said...

I know this if off topic but I'm looking into starting my own weblog and was curious what all is required to get set up? I'm
assuming having a blog like yours would cost a pretty penny?
I'm not very web smart so I'm not 100% positive. Any recommendations or advice would
be greatly appreciated. Appreciate it

Take a look at my website :: just click the next site

Anonymous said...

Hi there just happened upon your website from Yahoo after I entered in, "Blogger: Shark and Shepherd" or something similar (can't quite remember exactly). Anyhow, I'm happy I found
it because your subject material is exactly what I'm looking for (writing a university paper) and I hope you don't mind if I gather some
material from here and I will of course credit you as the source.
Appreciate it.

Also visit my site backlink tool

Anonymous said...

Hi! I've been following your web site for a while now and finally got the courage to go ahead and give you a shout out from New Caney Texas! Just wanted to mention keep up the excellent job!

My blog post; similar resource site

Anonymous said...

Wow, wonderful blog layout! How long have you been blogging for?
you make blogging look easy. The overall look of your web site
is great, let alone the content!

Review my webpage: anti cellulite treatment

Anonymous said...

Hiya! I know this is kinda off topic however , I'd figured I'd ask.
Would you be interested in exchanging links or maybe guest writing a blog post or vice-versa?
My blog goes over a lot of the same topics as yours and I believe we could greatly
benefit from each other. If you are interested feel free to send me an email.
I look forward to hearing from you! Superb blog by the way!


my web-site: auto insurance premiums

Anonymous said...

Good day! Do you know if they make any plugins to assist with Search
Engine Optimization? I'm trying to get my blog to rank for some targeted keywords but I'm not seeing very good
results. If you know of any please share. Thank you!


Review my homepage - Get More Info

Anonymous said...

Hey administrator, I just wanted to give you a quick heads up that
your Domain name: http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?
blogID=20692053&postID=115523576708150715 is being flagged as a possibly malicious web site in my
internet browser chrome. I'd highly recommend having someone look into it. You could certainly lose a lot of guests due to this issue. Best of Luck.

Feel free to surf to my page ... outsource link building

Anonymous said...

Hmm is anyone else having problems with the pictures on this blog loading?
I'm trying to find out if its a problem on my end or if it's the blog.
Any feed-back would be greatly appreciated.

Take a look at my web page cheapest auto insurance

Anonymous said...

First off I want to say excellent blog! I had a quick question which I'd like to ask if you don't mind.
I was curious to find out how you center yourself and clear
your mind before writing. I have had a tough time clearing
my thoughts in getting my thoughts out there. I truly do enjoy
writing but it just seems like the first 10 to 15 minutes
are generally wasted just trying to figure out how to begin.
Any ideas or tips? Appreciate it!

Feel free to visit my website - Visit Website

Anonymous said...

Hello there! This is my first visit to your blog!
We are a collection of volunteers and starting a new project in a community in the same niche.
Your blog provided us valuable information to work on.
You have done a outstanding job!

My webpage check my site ()

Anonymous said...

I'm not sure why but this web site is loading extremely slow for me. Is anyone else having this issue or is it a issue on my end? I'll
check back later on and see if the problem still exists.

Also visit my weblog click the next site ()

Anonymous said...

Hey just stumbled upon your blog from Yahoo after
I entered in, "Blogger: Shark and Shepherd" or something similar (can't quite remember exactly). Anyways, I'm relieved I
found it simply because your content is exactly what I'm searching for (writing a university paper) and I hope you don't mind if I gather some information
from here and I will of course credit you as the source.
Thanks.

Look at my webpage; professional link building services

Anonymous said...

Wonderful blog! I found it while surfing around on Yahoo News.
Do you have any tips on how to get listed in Yahoo News?

I've been trying for a while but I never seem to get there! Thanks

Also visit my page - hagerty auto insurance

Anonymous said...

Howdy! This is kind of off topic but I need some advice from
an established blog. Is it hard to set up your own
blog? I'm not very techincal but I can figure things out pretty fast. I'm thinking about
creating my own but I'm not sure where to begin. Do you have any ideas or suggestions? Appreciate it

my site ... Look At This

Anonymous said...

Exploring delicious.com I noticed your blog book-marked as: Blogger:
Shark and Shepherd. Now i'm assuming you book-marked it yourself and wanted to ask if social bookmarking gets you a bunch of targeted visitors? I've been thinking about doing some bookmarking for
a few of my sites but wasn't sure if it would produce any positive results. Thank you very much.

Feel free to visit my web site; official site

Anonymous said...

Do you mind if I quote a couple of your articles as long as I provide credit and
sources back to your site? My website is in the exact same area of interest as yours and my visitors would definitely benefit from a lot of the information you present here.
Please let me know if this okay with you.

Thank you!

Also visit my page ... outsource link building

Anonymous said...

May I simply say what a comfort to uncover someone
who really knows what they're talking about on the internet. You certainly understand how to bring a problem to light and make it important. More and more people ought to read this and understand this side of your story. It's surprising you are not
more popular given that you definitely have the gift.


Also visit my website related internet page ()

Anonymous said...

Heya i am for the first time here. I found this board and I find
It truly useful & it helped me out much. I hope to give something
back and aid others like you aided me.

Feel free to surf to my blog - Learn Even more

Anonymous said...

I'm really loving the theme/design of your website. Do you ever run into any web browser compatibility issues? A couple of my blog visitors have complained about my website not working correctly in Explorer but looks great in Safari. Do you have any recommendations to help fix this issue?

Here is my webpage: Click The Link ()

Anonymous said...

With havin so much content do you ever run into any issues of plagorism or copyright violation?
My site has a lot of completely unique content I've either written myself or outsourced but it seems a lot of it is popping it up all over the web without my agreement. Do you know any techniques to help prevent content from being stolen? I'd definitely appreciate it.


Here is my blog post - web seo services

Anonymous said...

Write more, thats all I have to say. Literally, it seems as though you relied on the video to make your point.

You clearly know what youre talking about, why throw away
your intelligence on just posting videos to your blog when you
could be giving us something enlightening to read?

My webpage ... Read the Full Posting